Discussion Week 4, Parables (I)

 There is no meeting on July 5, which is part of the July 4 celebration of independence from Great Britain.

Week 5:  July 12:  Parables of the Kingdom, Part II

Using metaphors of feasting and fishing, Jesus tells us what the Kingdom of God is.

Reading:  Luke 14:15-24 (feast); Matthew 13:47-14:12 (fishing

Below⬇️:  discussion notes from Week 4, Parables of the Kingdom Part I

It was a terrific discussion, and if you missed it (you know who you are), you missed it.  After the opening prayer, rules and regulations, we closed our eyes and listened to a reading of Mark 4:26-33, story of scattering seed and the Kingdom of God is like… tiny mustard seed that grows into a large tree; what does it mean spiritually, and finally the “so what?” question will be asked later.

What did we see in our mind’s eye?  A farmer—the old fashioned kind, not the agribusiness sort; how tough the lot of a farmer is, relying on nature; the mustard seed—how mustard adds taste and vividness; a stalk of corn; a garden plot; the magic of “there it is”; BUGS; wild mustard; growing of the seed being like magic; the excitement when you first see the sprouting!  We visualized the farmer, the seed, the growth, the garden, the magic of the process.  

We closed our eyes and listened to a reading of Matthew 25:14-30, the distribution by the master to three slaves of five/three/one talents.

What did we see in our mind’s eye?  The poor fellow with the one talent—he’s scared!  Sounds like an Old Testament God figure, the harsh judgement.  We don’t like this parable!.  But the master knows them, knows what they can do—and he was right.  

What is the spiritual meaning of these things?  The farmer in first parable is God.  The seed is faith, potential, talent, Holy Spirit, the Word, the Gospel.  But we do not know how the seed grows.  Have to be open to receiving it.  The garden is US;  are we all fruitful gardens?  We’re working on it.  It’s a process, and we don’t always understand it, but if we keep faithful to God’s process our garden becomes fruitful.  The magic is God’s magic—the Holy Spirit.  Growth is evangelism, spreading the Word.

The talent parable:   The master is God.  The slaves are US.  (Some grumbling about using the slave word.  Compromised that we are “workers” for Christ..). The talents are spiritual resources.  Not how much you are given; what you are doing for God with what you are given.  We’re working for God to grow more, to grow something, maybe the Kingdom of God.

SO WHAT?  Pulling these two parables together:  you have the grace of the garden and you plant and tend, but there also has to be trust in the master.  The slave’s fear was projected onto the master, not that the master was like he projected.  God says, “you can handle this” — and one will become two, and two become four and more talents.

Complaint(s) about the talent being taken away and weeping and gnashing.  It’s the Last Judgement.  You’re called to use God’s gifts/rejecting God.  Question about knowing when you are called — from head or heart?  Doing things for our own gratification instead of for God?  God will keep calling.  We have to hear it.  Intuition.  Serving God can be a lot of things, not narrowly “church” service.

Week 4: June 28: Parables of the Kingdom, Part I

 Who doesn't love a good story?  Jesus told many parables of the Kingdom of God, and while some sound odd to our ears today, they formed the core of Jesus' teaching on the Kingdom.  This week we look at one using agriculture and one using money as their metaphor.

Read and discussion:  Mark 4:26-33; Matthew 25:14-30 

PLEASE NOTE:  THERE IS NO MEETING JULY 5.

Week 3 bible discussion notes

Notes from Week 3:  June 21:  Entrance Exam for the Kingdom of God

Important to note that — depending on your translation — Jesus either says, “unless you are born from above” OR ELSE “unless you are born again”.  (Entire denominations have created themselves out of one or the other of these translations.). In fact, the Greek word used by the author of the Gospel of John is a double meaning:  “unless you are born from above and born again”.   Translators choose one and note the other in footnote.  

Since multiple questions and discussions had come in via email - and since they seem to converge on the same question — we started there:  Does this mean you have to be a Christian to enter the Kingdom of God?   Does this mean you have to be baptized?

No, you don’t have to.  It can happen anywhere to anyone:  verse 8:  The wind blows where it pleases, you hear its sound but. you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going.  The Trinity is in this passage.  Is the Trinity the Kingdom of God?  The teacher Nicodemus comes from God, Jesus is here, and He’s talking about the Holy Spirit.  It doesn’t say you have to be a Christian:  Jesus wasn’t a Christian; there weren’t any at this time!  Born of the water and Spirit is important in this reading.  People take it differently—if they take it the way Nicodemus does, they will never understand it.  Born again, thinking of new wine skins. 

We talked a lot about baptism:  some sects have baptism of only spirit, some of only water.  When we get baptized in Episcopal Churches, water and oil (oil represents the Spirit, water represents cleansing).  What about all those people who don’t have a bible?  The wind!  We have a God-created void within us:  there is a clear message when we see the stars and the heavens, and God fills that.  If we see creation, we see God, we are born again.  

We talked about dreams, people having them even without the knowledge of the Spirit.  (Like Nebuchadnezzar’s dream last week discussion.). What do we see or feel when we were baptized?  It should transform you, fill you with gifts of the Spirit.  Most of us were baptized as a baby.  Our adult/teenage baptized present didn’t feel then what they feel now.  See a difference when it’s an infant baptism, and the parents are the ones involved, making the commitment for their child; in adult baptisms you see a little bit of fear (what’s about to happen?) and after, relief, smiles.

Discussed the role of confirmation, does it give you the opportunity to refresh and understand your baptism vows?  No longer “required” to take communion.   Discussed “born again” in some sects, which is not seen as baptism at all, but a public declaration of faith, a dedication of children, a rite of passage.   When baptisms are done here in the church/chapel, there is a part where we get to renew our baptism vows—we get to do it as adults!  Talk about the wind, you feel it powerfully.  

Discussed the verse (John 3:11, Very truly, I tell you, we speak of what we know and testify to what we have seen) and experiences of being born again/anew among us.  What the people in the Gospel had experienced were the miracles of Jesus. 

Do churches have custody over formal baptism?  It’s the first thing asked as we enter.  (Are you in or are you looking to get in?). Is it a requirement to get into the Kingdom (and this church)?  Why is that question so important?  We need to know where you are in your journey, meet the person where they’re at.  Same as asking “are you born again?”. Same as asking “Have you been saved?”. 

Seems like this reading says you can’t enter the Kingdom unless you’ve made some sort of commitment or statement recognizing that God is there, whatever language or concept you use. 

With five minutes remaining to the discussion, a (nameless) ministerial assistant arrived—just in time to give the final word on, baptism, being born from above, being born again and the Kingdom of God.  “Be baptized.  If you’re already baptized, remember your baptism.”

Week 3: June 21: Entrance Exam for the Kingdom of God

 What does it take to get admitted to the Kingdom of God?

Read and discussion:  John 3:1-13

Week 2 Discussion Notes and PS Readings for Week 3

Week 2, When Does the Kingdom of God Begin?

Another full house, a few unexpected visitors (who shall rename nameless), and a lively discussion despite the first comment being:

“DANIEL?  Who reads DANIEL?”

Well, we did, and we discussed, after hearing Daniel 2:36-45 read in German while we followed along in our various translations, feeling like we were listening to dream language.

Beyond that, the opening comments were brought through an off-site follower of the discussion, which tied well into (1) what is happening physically, (2) what does it mean and (3) “so what”, how does it apply to me:

The passage is a precursor to what is to come.  It reflects the idea that God’s Kingdom will endure while kings of man and their ideas/power will pass away.  Daniel goes on later and his writing unfolds the depth of faith of some and their influence to convert Nebuchadnezzar.  God’s kingdom is everywhere and always.  Everyone is part of His Kingdom.

Inspired by this clarity, we tried to discuss level one, what is happening in this passage.  You could make a movie out of this passage—it is so picturesque.  What does this statue thing he’s talking about look like?

An idol.  Like a totem.  Chunks get knocked off.  The gold is at the head of it.  It was a frightening sight.  The clash of all these physical elements is so vivid.  It’s like a volcano turning into a cataclysmic event.   Lots of violence in it, seems like a beast that got crammed together.  It’s like a history lesson, these empires.  They will all be overtaken—it’s almost expected they will all be overtaken.  The empires have consumed resources more than they have give.  But God’s Kingdom will last forever.  The kingdoms are all made out of different things that don’t match, don’t mix.  What does it mean?  

It’s not strong enough to last. Surely they’re all trying to be #1–all aiming for the head.  They won’t be compatible.   Some of the imagery shows the mismatch, some parts brittle, some parts strong.  It’s getting into power and getting complacent and then the next one comes along and breaks them.  

So how does this work in us?

It’s happening right now.  We thought our empire was the best ever seen.  The British thought this.  (The British think this correctly.). But we are brittle, something is breaking us.  But we’re here in this room, and that means there is something else—the Kingdom of God that we believe in.  Every empire has four empires within it, like the dream of Nebuchadnezzar.

There was an essay on the stages of empire surveying the kingdoms of the world:  cycles and patterns—revolution, excitement (storming and forming creating something new nation-state), stabilize, flourishing, amassing wealth, decadence, decay, corruption—time for reform and revolution, and the old empire is overthrown.  Will the Kingdom of God break that cycle?

It already has.  God allows kingdoms to be built, allows kings to have power.  Sets the stage for the context of the Kingdom of God.  What grows out of the ruins is the seed of the Kingdom of God.  Why it is here now is because it is the holy catholic church.  (Jesus:  The Kingdom of God is at hand.). The Kingdom has broken into the nations of the world within the life of the church.

How does it apply inside us?

“Allowing” these empires to be built and have power—that’s LOVE.  Love is allowing your child to do what they do, not coercing them.  Part of the Kingdom is be open, loving instead of forcing and coercion.  Empires are built on force.  Jesus made the Kingdom very relatable and personable; He was inclusive, invited everybody.

We are growing the Kingdom of God in us.  Don’t we go through these stages like the dream idol?  Some  parts destroyed, some growth again.  Discussed personal times of growth in the Kingdom, after personal destruction.  Discussed the effect the global pandemic had on us individually and trying to move forward.  The gift to Christians is we can identify with this Kingdom, yes to come in fullness, but here and now.  Christians particularly now are struggling with identifying with a kingdom of the world and putting it on top of this Kingdom of God.   We conflate the Kingdom of God with the kingdoms of the world.  It is clear what happens to the kingdoms of the world!  We are in the Kingdom now and also for eternity.

Maybe this dream and Daniel’s interpretation on the Kingdom of God happens to us internally every day.

 Week 3:  June 21:  Entrance Exam for the Kingdom of God

What does it take to get admitted to the Kingdom of God?

Reading:  John 3:1-13

Week 2: June 14: When Does the Kingdom of God Begin?

Jesus didn't say, "let me tell you about the Kingdom of God"; He said, "it's here; it's now".  The exact phrase, "Kingdom of God" (or "Kingdom of Heaven") doesn't appear in Hebrew Scriptures, but the Jews of Jesus' time were very familiar with the concept.

Read and discussion:  Daniel 2:36-45.

Our discussion of Week 1

 Bible Discussion, Week 1, June 7:  Introducing and Defining the Kingdom of God

It was a full house and wonderfully overflowing, full of a multitude of bible translations including some in languages other than English.  Additionally, some of our notes from the meeting include comments emailed to us from folks unable to attend the meeting.     

We began by asking participants what we think is the Kingdom of God (or if we think about it)?  Some of our answers were:

I think the Kingdom of God is everywhere, all encompassing.

 I think the Kingdom of God is everywhere, but not necessarily a place, but a decision or a way of living.

One foot in heaven, one foot on earth, going back and forth.

I’ve not thought about it an awful lot.  I think there is something there, somebody looking down on me.

Something to do with love.  That whole John 3, “God is Love”.  When you see the result of love, it grows, and the Kingdom has something to do with expansion of love.

I haven’t really thought about the Kingdom of God.  I think it must be mostly internal, a spiritual place I can go to.  But that it includes our environment.  I think this community here is part of the Kingdom.

We’re all children of God, and honoring that Kingdom, and growing the Kingdom of God.  Beyond that, I don’t know.

I  think the Kingdom of God is the reign of God over His kingdom, which encompasses all things that bow and confess to Him.

I believe the Kingdom of God is upon us and in us, and I don’t really think about it a lot.

The Kingdom of God to me is Heaven, and it’s ’up there’ somewhere.  I’m trying to flesh out that definition here.

This is our baseline.  Let’s see what the Scriptures help us learn.

We read Luke 18:18-27.

What do we do to inherit the Kingdom of God?  Do we have to “do” anything to inherit the Kingdom?  God wants us to be with Him.    “The answer is in verse 27:  ‘What is impossible from a human perspective is possible with God.’  We surrender to Him, and then anything is possible.”

“For this particular person who is rich, this person is told to sell all he has and follow Jesus.” Discussed the call to discipleship, and asking people to follow him in other places in the gospels.  Discussed that the call comes from inside.

Is the Kingdom of God only open to Christian believers?  Discussed the universality of the Kingdom and non Christians.  Or those who have not been exposed to Christ.  If these people see the wonders of a sunrise, and if they believe there is a god who made that sunrise, are they believers or non believers?  They are.  Wherever truth, beauty love are, there is God, regardless of what language we use.

Pointed out verse 18, “No one is good but God”.  It’s not deeds; it’s God who fills people’s hearts.  This implies humility.  Does it count as good if we help other people?  This is growing that kingdom.  Love God, love your neighbor.  Christians aren’t the only ones who do that.  Others are humanistic.  In the last days when we are in heaven, every knee shall bend and every head shall bow.  It doesn’t say there’s a deadline on when we have to bow.  When we get to heaven we realize the kingdom is in place.

This physical story of the rich man:  what do we think about it spiritually?  “Accumulating wealth is an invention of man and thus has no bearing on entering the Kingdom of God.”. When you die, you don’t take anything with you, except the stored up “treasures in heaven”.

We concluded that selling all you have is particular to this rich man, that this is the rich man’s call, that we all receive different calls depending on our own needs and talents.   We are all called to the Kingdom, but in different ways.  

Week 1: June 7: Introducing and Defining the Kingdom of God

 What do we mean when we talk about the Kingdom of God?  Do we talk about it?  Do we mean heaven?  (Matthew calls it the Kingdom of Heaven, because his Jewish audience would be offended by using the name of God.). What does heaven look like?  (Hint:  the phrase, "pearly gates" appears no where in Scripture.)

Read and discussion:  Luke 18:18-27.